walking_dude
02-13 02:32 PM
Where did I say ROW need not participate?!Instead I asked ROW members to participate more actively and become a mainstream component of the movement!
Those ROW members who are part of the IV are supportive of removing country caps. They are satisfied with IVs stand that increase in numbers along with removal of country with benefit all - ROW, Indians, Chinese, Mexicans and Phillipinos. No EB immigrant will be left behind :-)
I'm thankful to every active IV member - ROW, India , China, Mexico or Phillipines who has worked for IVs cause. Those few ROW members who keep harping on the split in IV over country quotas never were/are part of the IV movement (active dedicated members). They just sit on the sidelines and create rifts.
.....
My comment was on someone suggesting moving ahead without the ROW participation since they only comprise 20% of the membership pool.
Those ROW members who are part of the IV are supportive of removing country caps. They are satisfied with IVs stand that increase in numbers along with removal of country with benefit all - ROW, Indians, Chinese, Mexicans and Phillipinos. No EB immigrant will be left behind :-)
I'm thankful to every active IV member - ROW, India , China, Mexico or Phillipines who has worked for IVs cause. Those few ROW members who keep harping on the split in IV over country quotas never were/are part of the IV movement (active dedicated members). They just sit on the sidelines and create rifts.
.....
My comment was on someone suggesting moving ahead without the ROW participation since they only comprise 20% of the membership pool.
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perm2gc
10-24 11:06 AM
If you join Microsoft , you might get less salary but they pay your insurance 100%. Is microsoft selling insurance to you?? its just a benefit/perk being an employee of microsoft.
same thing here too... pre-approved labor is just a perk/benefit offered by employer to hire you with less salary. so if you think you sacrificed your salary to get to cut the line for getting GC then you are thinking right.if not please stop thinking like socialist.
It all about money and business brother.
We have so much discussion on this topic in many threads but i dont know why people want to discuss samething again and again.
We know LC substituion is good for few and worst for many...
Admins can you please close the thread...
same thing here too... pre-approved labor is just a perk/benefit offered by employer to hire you with less salary. so if you think you sacrificed your salary to get to cut the line for getting GC then you are thinking right.if not please stop thinking like socialist.
It all about money and business brother.
We have so much discussion on this topic in many threads but i dont know why people want to discuss samething again and again.
We know LC substituion is good for few and worst for many...
Admins can you please close the thread...
dilber
07-16 03:37 AM
Some one has done a very good analysis in this thread.
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4285&page=107
Here is copy and paste of the post by gcobessesed
----------------------------------
Reading this post and the Ron Gotcher numbers, I see some answers for the pending India backlog number question and a silver lining for EB2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drirshad View Post
(Quoting Ron Gotcher) The CIS backlog does not appear to be as serious as I had been told previously. Rather than 600,000 pending employment based AOS cases, it is likely less than 400,000 pending cases.
Quote:
Indian applicants make up approximately 40 to 45 per cent of the entire employment based quota backlog
Therefore, about 160,000 applications are pending for India!
As we have seen before, EB3 and EB2 are almost the same proportion for India with EB3 being slightly higher. So, about 85,000 for EB3 and 75,000 for EB2 are pending.
I am very confident that EB-2 india will become current in about 14-18 months.
I disagree with the underlined part before the visa numbers started to move fast in June and The July bulletin EB2 was at Jan 03 and then at Apr 04 but EB3 was at May 01 and then at June 2003 so there will me more like 60~65 percent of Eb3 filers so for calculating EB2 movements we should take this into account as well. So if USCIS does end up giving all the spillover numbers to the retro cuntries in EB2 then I have to agree with Vdlrao's analysis that there will not be much retro in India in the next FY and by the end of next FY it might even become close to current.
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4285&page=107
Here is copy and paste of the post by gcobessesed
----------------------------------
Reading this post and the Ron Gotcher numbers, I see some answers for the pending India backlog number question and a silver lining for EB2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drirshad View Post
(Quoting Ron Gotcher) The CIS backlog does not appear to be as serious as I had been told previously. Rather than 600,000 pending employment based AOS cases, it is likely less than 400,000 pending cases.
Quote:
Indian applicants make up approximately 40 to 45 per cent of the entire employment based quota backlog
Therefore, about 160,000 applications are pending for India!
As we have seen before, EB3 and EB2 are almost the same proportion for India with EB3 being slightly higher. So, about 85,000 for EB3 and 75,000 for EB2 are pending.
I am very confident that EB-2 india will become current in about 14-18 months.
I disagree with the underlined part before the visa numbers started to move fast in June and The July bulletin EB2 was at Jan 03 and then at Apr 04 but EB3 was at May 01 and then at June 2003 so there will me more like 60~65 percent of Eb3 filers so for calculating EB2 movements we should take this into account as well. So if USCIS does end up giving all the spillover numbers to the retro cuntries in EB2 then I have to agree with Vdlrao's analysis that there will not be much retro in India in the next FY and by the end of next FY it might even become close to current.
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tw00ne
07-23 10:35 AM
Is unclear to me what the law is for those 2 cases
1) You are with the employer that sponsored I140 and you get GC.
2) You use AC21 and move to employer B and get you GC while at employer B.
In both cases more than 6 months have lapsed since the I485 filling
And the question is...:
Are you free, after getting the GC, to move to another company or you need to stay with current employer for a certain amount of time?
How would USCIS know if you moved?
1) You are with the employer that sponsored I140 and you get GC.
2) You use AC21 and move to employer B and get you GC while at employer B.
In both cases more than 6 months have lapsed since the I485 filling
And the question is...:
Are you free, after getting the GC, to move to another company or you need to stay with current employer for a certain amount of time?
How would USCIS know if you moved?
more...
BharatPremi
09-24 04:54 PM
Not sure what you are talking about. There are two rules as follows
28.6% EB visas for each category EB1/EB2/EB3 and 7.1% for EB4/EB5
Ans: These numbers are meant for "Assigning Visa numbers to applications" BUT " not to grant Visa / approve 485 / Order Physical Green card"
7% limit for each country in EB category (India will get 9800 visa in all EB1-5 categories)
+ 2% dependent limit for each country in EB category
Ans: These numbers are meant for "grant Visa / approve 485 / Order Physical Green card" BUT " not to Assign Visa numbers to applications"
To enforce the limit each EB subcategory (EB1/EB2/EB3/EB4/EB5) enforces country cap, no more than 2822 visa for India in EB1/EB2/EB3 categories.
Ans: this concept 0.07X 0.286 - It is a false concept.
The limit can be extended when there are leftover visas (this is what has extended the limit for EB1/EB2/EB3 India for last few years).
/\ my answers
28.6% EB visas for each category EB1/EB2/EB3 and 7.1% for EB4/EB5
Ans: These numbers are meant for "Assigning Visa numbers to applications" BUT " not to grant Visa / approve 485 / Order Physical Green card"
7% limit for each country in EB category (India will get 9800 visa in all EB1-5 categories)
+ 2% dependent limit for each country in EB category
Ans: These numbers are meant for "grant Visa / approve 485 / Order Physical Green card" BUT " not to Assign Visa numbers to applications"
To enforce the limit each EB subcategory (EB1/EB2/EB3/EB4/EB5) enforces country cap, no more than 2822 visa for India in EB1/EB2/EB3 categories.
Ans: this concept 0.07X 0.286 - It is a false concept.
The limit can be extended when there are leftover visas (this is what has extended the limit for EB1/EB2/EB3 India for last few years).
/\ my answers
mabuhay
07-13 02:29 PM
I'm tired and extremely frustrated. Maybe this country does NOT need
an experience special education teacher nor a registered nurse (my husband), who studied here but cannot work because of unavailability of visa/green card.
Starting today, I will explore the possibility of moving to Canada. Could anyone direct me on how to start?
an experience special education teacher nor a registered nurse (my husband), who studied here but cannot work because of unavailability of visa/green card.
Starting today, I will explore the possibility of moving to Canada. Could anyone direct me on how to start?
more...
amitjoey
01-14 12:24 PM
Let us all promise ourselves that we will not get personal with each other. No abusive, foul language.
We can disagree with each other but we have to watch our tone and not engage in personal attacks.
We can disagree with each other but we have to watch our tone and not engage in personal attacks.
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tikka
07-03 06:25 PM
85 and counting...
http://digg.com/politics/Rep_Lofgren_Issues_Statement_on_Updated_Visa_Bulle tin/who
http://digg.com/politics/Rep_Lofgren_Issues_Statement_on_Updated_Visa_Bulle tin/who
more...
satishku_2000
07-03 09:41 PM
I am trying an outline for sending to media + lawmakers + ...
The following is a very rough draft without reading some of the letters posted in the thread. I will read the posts tomorrow and polish it by tomorrow evening. I will need everyone's input since I don't know all the issues.
Introduction
Retrogression in GC process.
What happened
USCIS announced at the time the forms were due.
Applicants started filling forms 2-3 weeks before July 2.
Applicants changed their schedules to submit forms.
Advantages of EAD + AP
Don't know all!
Travel without visa -> saves Embassy overhead.
Spouse can work.
Can switch job.
Why does it hurt
Medical will not be valid after 1 year.
Rejected June filers can not file.
June filers did not file because they thought they will file in July.
Fees more then doubling
Name checking (which can take 1+ year) done in parallel with waiting for GC #.
Load balancing for USCIS.
USCIS which is supported 90% by application fee needs to care for applicants.
Very little chance of legislative relief for a looong time.
age out situations for children too ....I think that affects lot of people too..I am single and dont have kids :D
The following is a very rough draft without reading some of the letters posted in the thread. I will read the posts tomorrow and polish it by tomorrow evening. I will need everyone's input since I don't know all the issues.
Introduction
Retrogression in GC process.
What happened
USCIS announced at the time the forms were due.
Applicants started filling forms 2-3 weeks before July 2.
Applicants changed their schedules to submit forms.
Advantages of EAD + AP
Don't know all!
Travel without visa -> saves Embassy overhead.
Spouse can work.
Can switch job.
Why does it hurt
Medical will not be valid after 1 year.
Rejected June filers can not file.
June filers did not file because they thought they will file in July.
Fees more then doubling
Name checking (which can take 1+ year) done in parallel with waiting for GC #.
Load balancing for USCIS.
USCIS which is supported 90% by application fee needs to care for applicants.
Very little chance of legislative relief for a looong time.
age out situations for children too ....I think that affects lot of people too..I am single and dont have kids :D
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angelfire76
05-29 09:24 PM
still ppl feel pulling others lag would get them GC - this commnity can never be united!:confused:
You are not getting the point. We are not pulling others down, they are pushing us down.
It's not a subtle difference.
You are not getting the point. We are not pulling others down, they are pushing us down.
It's not a subtle difference.
more...
msp1976
02-13 03:07 PM
The 7% is a maximum.
They do not have to go to 7% if they don't want to. However; they can't go over it; if there is more demand then supply.
What about paragraph 5 that I have posted up somewhere ???
Does that allow the 7% limit to be exceeded or not ?
they can't go over it; if there is more demand then supply.
That is why we need more supply.....Once supply is more they can go over 7%...
They do not have to go to 7% if they don't want to. However; they can't go over it; if there is more demand then supply.
What about paragraph 5 that I have posted up somewhere ???
Does that allow the 7% limit to be exceeded or not ?
they can't go over it; if there is more demand then supply.
That is why we need more supply.....Once supply is more they can go over 7%...
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samay
07-06 12:03 PM
My LC applied in Feb 2008
LC approved Apr 2008
I-140 Applied May 2008
My 6th yr H1B expires Dec 2008
H1B Maxout Jan 2008
I am short by around 20 days Should i recapture the days by going out of country for 20 days and apply H1B 1yr extension, Will i Qualify for 3 yrs in this case...?
or should i just Apply for I-140 PP in Oct 2008 and 3 yr H1B Extension without worrying about recapturing 20 days.
Hello
In order to qualify for a three year extension one has to have an approved I-140. From the given facts I understand you will be eligible for one year H-1 B extension in February 2008. You can apply for an extension of H-1 B for a recapture of the days you spent outside India. You are not required to get out of US so long as your petition for extension is pending with the USCIS. Alternatively you can apply for premium processing of I-140 (when it commences). The benefit of course will be that you will be able to get a three year extension. You will have to weigh the cost of the PP with the cost of the H-1 B extension.
LC approved Apr 2008
I-140 Applied May 2008
My 6th yr H1B expires Dec 2008
H1B Maxout Jan 2008
I am short by around 20 days Should i recapture the days by going out of country for 20 days and apply H1B 1yr extension, Will i Qualify for 3 yrs in this case...?
or should i just Apply for I-140 PP in Oct 2008 and 3 yr H1B Extension without worrying about recapturing 20 days.
Hello
In order to qualify for a three year extension one has to have an approved I-140. From the given facts I understand you will be eligible for one year H-1 B extension in February 2008. You can apply for an extension of H-1 B for a recapture of the days you spent outside India. You are not required to get out of US so long as your petition for extension is pending with the USCIS. Alternatively you can apply for premium processing of I-140 (when it commences). The benefit of course will be that you will be able to get a three year extension. You will have to weigh the cost of the PP with the cost of the H-1 B extension.
more...
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yabadaba
08-04 03:05 PM
seriously...when we are done with our current task of retrogression relief we should modify IV's goals to ensure that loopholes like labor substitution are eliminated.
let us get credible as a citizen effort for fair, reliable and efficient immigration process.
let us get credible as a citizen effort for fair, reliable and efficient immigration process.
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dilipcr
06-12 03:24 AM
dilipcr ....... I am perplexed by your responses. To be honest you are flip flopping in your statements. Now if you lose job, please do not come to India seeking a job as PIO. or dual citizen. Should India be also closing doors on her children who showed her backside?
Unseenguy,
I am fairly confident, touch wood, that I would not be dependent on India for a handout. I have paid my debts to the Indian society by investing in India. I did not graduate out of an IIT but I did graduate out of the 2nd best engineering college (atleast then) in Rajasthan, India. I am sure you guys would have guessed it by now. Just for the record, I had to pay full expensive tuition and my education was not subsidized. By my responsible style of life, I believe that I have become a self made man and so would hopefully be of material help but not a public burden to India. be rest assured !!!
Unseenguy,
I am fairly confident, touch wood, that I would not be dependent on India for a handout. I have paid my debts to the Indian society by investing in India. I did not graduate out of an IIT but I did graduate out of the 2nd best engineering college (atleast then) in Rajasthan, India. I am sure you guys would have guessed it by now. Just for the record, I had to pay full expensive tuition and my education was not subsidized. By my responsible style of life, I believe that I have become a self made man and so would hopefully be of material help but not a public burden to India. be rest assured !!!
more...
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go_guy123
06-14 05:58 PM
You have got the same Indian mentality that most of the people here that once we got a GC and citizenship let us close the doors behind us.
....
Who are you to judge the people coming after you that they are not skilled or the best and brightest.
Well he is a permanent resident of US and soon to be USC and majority of US citizens
want reduced immigration to US and can vote in elections accordingly.
Immigration is such a hot topic I dont see Obama doing anything before his second term.
....
Who are you to judge the people coming after you that they are not skilled or the best and brightest.
Well he is a permanent resident of US and soon to be USC and majority of US citizens
want reduced immigration to US and can vote in elections accordingly.
Immigration is such a hot topic I dont see Obama doing anything before his second term.
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BharatPremi
12-13 09:40 PM
As you use the phrase Check Mate....
Chess is all about thinking strategically several moves ahead.
Given the current political climate on immigration I think that we will be in a check mate position (on the loosing end) if we pursue that road.
The anti's would be all over us as soon as we filed in federal district court probably even before a hearing, and definitely after a hearing. If we lost in lower courts the Supreme Court would probably refuse to hear the appeal, in the mean time we'd have just stirred up the anti's hornets nest against us, just as much if not worse than against the illegals.
Asking Congress to make small changes in the existing laws annoys the anti's. Telling them or forcing them to wholesale rewrite their laws would make us public enemy #1. We would be lucky to have more than a handful of law makers willing to stand up for us. It would kill off all lobbying ability.
Think of lobbying as polite negotiation.
Think of Supreme court case as picking a fist fight, in which we are badly out numbered.
Once you have started a fist fight it is much harder to negotiate, especially from a loosing position.
I would rather negotiate than fight, I would rather lobby than court challenge.
So yes, check mate, if we follow this route.
Alternatively, a British phase: Royally screwed!
It make sense to use the wisdom tooth and be practical. But even with lobbying we will still have cat (Anti's)... no way to bell it?
Chess is all about thinking strategically several moves ahead.
Given the current political climate on immigration I think that we will be in a check mate position (on the loosing end) if we pursue that road.
The anti's would be all over us as soon as we filed in federal district court probably even before a hearing, and definitely after a hearing. If we lost in lower courts the Supreme Court would probably refuse to hear the appeal, in the mean time we'd have just stirred up the anti's hornets nest against us, just as much if not worse than against the illegals.
Asking Congress to make small changes in the existing laws annoys the anti's. Telling them or forcing them to wholesale rewrite their laws would make us public enemy #1. We would be lucky to have more than a handful of law makers willing to stand up for us. It would kill off all lobbying ability.
Think of lobbying as polite negotiation.
Think of Supreme court case as picking a fist fight, in which we are badly out numbered.
Once you have started a fist fight it is much harder to negotiate, especially from a loosing position.
I would rather negotiate than fight, I would rather lobby than court challenge.
So yes, check mate, if we follow this route.
Alternatively, a British phase: Royally screwed!
It make sense to use the wisdom tooth and be practical. But even with lobbying we will still have cat (Anti's)... no way to bell it?
more...
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GetGC08
07-30 02:18 PM
To answer your question I will have to go through all your I-140 documents. What did your academic evaluation and experiential evaluation stipulate.
Hello Samay,
First of all thank you so much for answering my questions.
In my LCA(H1B) Prevailing wage is mentioned $ 55K & in my Labor(PERM) application Prevailing wage is mentioned $ 65K.
My labor(PERM) has been approved & I-140 is in process at TSC.
My question is
This diffrence between LCA mentioned prevailing wage(i.e. $55K) & Labor(PERM) prevailing wage(i.e. $65K) going to create any problem at stage of I-140 or later in I-485??
I am getting paid as mentioned in LCA i.e. $55K.
I will greatly appreciate response.
Thanks.
Hello Samay,
First of all thank you so much for answering my questions.
In my LCA(H1B) Prevailing wage is mentioned $ 55K & in my Labor(PERM) application Prevailing wage is mentioned $ 65K.
My labor(PERM) has been approved & I-140 is in process at TSC.
My question is
This diffrence between LCA mentioned prevailing wage(i.e. $55K) & Labor(PERM) prevailing wage(i.e. $65K) going to create any problem at stage of I-140 or later in I-485??
I am getting paid as mentioned in LCA i.e. $55K.
I will greatly appreciate response.
Thanks.
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franklin
02-14 04:44 PM
Wow - yes, I obviously wasn't getting the point! Thanks UN for clarifying it.
My earlier comments were more questioning why we debating what I thought was a hypothetical problem, ie "if there were unused visas, there wouldn't be retrogression", and I was missing the bigger picture.
I certainly wasn't "one of those EB3 WOW guys" just arguing that we should get all the extras, if you know any history about my posting on this board, you'll know that I am concerned with everyone's fight, not just mine.
My earlier comments were more questioning why we debating what I thought was a hypothetical problem, ie "if there were unused visas, there wouldn't be retrogression", and I was missing the bigger picture.
I certainly wasn't "one of those EB3 WOW guys" just arguing that we should get all the extras, if you know any history about my posting on this board, you'll know that I am concerned with everyone's fight, not just mine.
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alterego
07-25 07:37 PM
The argument that EB2-1 PD will retrogress to 2002 or 2004 does not seem to be based on numbers, but a random speculation. Doesn't not undermine vdlrao's projections in a credible way
Spillover may not be there, or may be there but when the new quota opens up October 1st, new minimum numbers will be available for EB2-I. Worst case scenario, dates will remain static or very minimal backward movement. It looks like the black hole is the time between late 2004 and early 2005, pre-PERM.Other than saying there is massive inventory of backlogged cases, Ron has not given better/ actual numbers of likely pending EB-2 I cases.
Next years numbers are not consequential to EB2I movement to be honest. Any realistic movement will depend on spillover. Consider that EB2I is statutorily limited to about 2800 visas(inclusive of family members) without spillover. Whereas spillover has the potential to contribute tens of thousands of visas.
Ron's assertion that "most of the EB India backlog" is EB2 is frankly not credible in my view. I am not sure what his source is for this, but it seems way off the mark. EB3 will clearly be far more than EB2 in my view.
Spillover may not be there, or may be there but when the new quota opens up October 1st, new minimum numbers will be available for EB2-I. Worst case scenario, dates will remain static or very minimal backward movement. It looks like the black hole is the time between late 2004 and early 2005, pre-PERM.Other than saying there is massive inventory of backlogged cases, Ron has not given better/ actual numbers of likely pending EB-2 I cases.
Next years numbers are not consequential to EB2I movement to be honest. Any realistic movement will depend on spillover. Consider that EB2I is statutorily limited to about 2800 visas(inclusive of family members) without spillover. Whereas spillover has the potential to contribute tens of thousands of visas.
Ron's assertion that "most of the EB India backlog" is EB2 is frankly not credible in my view. I am not sure what his source is for this, but it seems way off the mark. EB3 will clearly be far more than EB2 in my view.
chantu
03-30 02:06 PM
The most of the guys posting in this thread is not going to vote. Even I think, we all do not have our names in electoral list. There is no sense in arguing who is best or who should be next PM, sitting in US. Furthermore, most of the educated, urban voters will never go to polling booth in hot summer to stand in line to do their duty as a citizen.. Indian�s election of their representatives is fundamentally a show of money and muscle power. Election in India is just a business. It is just investment of money by political parties with the help of capitalists and their lobbyist to get the vote from rural, uneducated, divided voters across the nation. All parties are corruptive, communal, divisive, plays vote bank politics. No exceptions! (whether it is Congress, BJP, communists, BSP, SP, and countless regional parties). One thing I can say or compare about Congress and BJP. Congress is the only party has responsible for bringing both good (economy, growth, education,) and bad (corruption and countless other) thing to India. BJP has not done any good thing to India sofar, only it brought bad things to India (divisive, corruption).
My input regarding comparison of Manmohan and Advani.
Manmohan.
Though, he is not a full time politician, and not a good crowd pulling speaker, he has strong record. He has quietly achieved lot as a RBI governor; FM and PM. US nuclear agreement is a big achievement in his career, despite he had a minority government with the strong left opposition. He does not have long term independent vision, and strong leadership skills. He was widely accepted by all part of the country, as he has no controversial issues.
Advani,
He is a good speaker, crowd puller. He is a typical Indian politician. He has leadership skills. He does not have any significant record/achievement to back his claim for PM (either as a ex-minister or politician). For example, he has not done anything to improve the national security when he was a union home minister. He has involved in controversial issue like Babri Majit, and Ram temple issue. He also does not have long term vision, ideas on economy, poverty elimination etc..
Ramba, can you please update your profile? I am surprised a Brazilian knows much about Indian politics.
My input regarding comparison of Manmohan and Advani.
Manmohan.
Though, he is not a full time politician, and not a good crowd pulling speaker, he has strong record. He has quietly achieved lot as a RBI governor; FM and PM. US nuclear agreement is a big achievement in his career, despite he had a minority government with the strong left opposition. He does not have long term independent vision, and strong leadership skills. He was widely accepted by all part of the country, as he has no controversial issues.
Advani,
He is a good speaker, crowd puller. He is a typical Indian politician. He has leadership skills. He does not have any significant record/achievement to back his claim for PM (either as a ex-minister or politician). For example, he has not done anything to improve the national security when he was a union home minister. He has involved in controversial issue like Babri Majit, and Ram temple issue. He also does not have long term vision, ideas on economy, poverty elimination etc..
Ramba, can you please update your profile? I am surprised a Brazilian knows much about Indian politics.
snathan
01-21 06:27 PM
I got the below email from multiple friends. I don't know what is the source, who wrote this analysis because there is no links. I did NOT mean to spread the fear. Just sharing the contents unaltered.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
However, this is how many could read RECENT (Jan 8, 2010) actions / announcement by USCIS towards Consulting companies, which engages or merely places their employees at the client sites for various projects.
� No new H1B application will be approved, as per the new guidelines provided USCIS on Jan 08, 2010 memorandum � for 3rd Party Consulting company.
� No new H1B extension/stamping will be approved, as per the new guidelines provided USCIS on Jan 08, 2010 memorandum � for 3rd Party Consulting company.
� If an employee has H1B approved or extension approved, and if he/she comes back to US from a vacation or from an emergency, he/she would be deported back to his/her home country from the Port of Entry (PoE) � for 3rd Party Consulting company.
Why?
Because of 2 recent events:
1) USCIS gave new memorandum (which is now guidelines for USCIS professionals working on the H1B petitions/extensions) on Jan 08th, 2010. (Attached the PDF file for the memorandum).
2) Recently (Jan 2010) several H1B Employees were sent back (in some forum, its mentioned � all of them) to their home country from Newark, NJ and JFK, NY Port of Entry � these were the H1B employees, who went to spend Christmas/New Year vacation to their home countries.
What does the memorandum mention, specifically, about 3rd Party Consulting companies?
Link to the memorandum (PDF attached) � http://www.uscis.gov/USCIS/Laws/Memoranda/2010/H1B%20Employer-Employee%20Memo010810.pdf
Employer-Employee Relationship:
As per the memorandum, some previous H1B Law defines, the definition of an �US Employer�. Somewhere in that definition (Page 2 of memo), it mentions the word �Employer-Employee relationship�. Till now, it seems that there was no clear guidance on what kind of relationship was considered having Employer-Employee relationship. So, it was being, probably, interpreted independently or ambiguously. Now, on Jan 8th, 2010, USCIS has published this memorandum for TRAINING USCIS OFFICIALS about understanding, Employer-Employee relationship. The memorandum seems to have been prepared with a clear understanding about it, along with the specific EXAMPLES.
Memorandum has given few specific examples, which would QUALIFY for having Employer-Employee relationship, on Page 4-5 of the Memo � including the nature of the job/business. On Page 5-6, memorandum gives few specific examples, which would NOT QUALIFY for having Employer-Employee relationship. Third Party Placement / �Job-Shop� (better version of �Body-shop�, probably) is NOT QUALIFIED for meeting Employer-Employee Relationships � meaning, 3rd Party placement (which most of the small consulting companies do) doesn�t meet H1B requirement, as defined by the law � meaning for this job, the new H1B or Extension or Stamping petitions CANNOT be approved!! Period !!
This is how memorandum has identified 3rd Party Placements and in Bold letters, why it disqualifies for the H1B petitions (comments are in Red):
�The petitioner is a computer consulting company (which is what all small consulting do). The petitioner has contract with numerous outside companies in which it supplies these companies with employee to fulfill specific staffing needs. The specific positions are not outlined in the contract between the petitioner and the third-party company but are staffed on an as-needed basis (this is nothing but, Service Agreement between the petitioner and the mid-vendor!). The beneficiary is a computer analyst (which is what many small consulting company�s employee are). The beneficiary has been assigned to work for the third-party company to fill a core position to maintain the third-party company�s payroll (this nothing but, Mid-Vendor�s or so-called Prime-Vendor�s or Consulting Partner�s Revenue). Once placed at the client company, the beneficiary reports to a manager who works for the third-party company (as it happens, when Consulting partner hires employee as a contractor). The beneficiary does not report to the petitioner for work assignments, and all work assignments are determined by the third-party company (petitioner just runs pay-rolls!). The petitioner does not control how the beneficiary will complete daily tasks, and no propriety information of the petitioner is used by the beneficiary to complete any work assignments (petitioner just runs pay-rolls!). The beneficiary�s end-product, the payroll (payroll of mid-vendor/prime vendor/consulting partner), is not in any way related to the petitioner�s line of business, which is computer consulting. The beneficiary�s progress reviews are completed by the client company, not the petitioner (petitioner just runs pay-rolls!). [Petitioner Has No Right to Control; No Exercise of Control].�
Right to Control:
Supreme Court has stated the definition of Employer-Employee Relationship (Page 3 of Memo), and there it was mentioned to have �Right to Control� over the work of the employee by the employer. From the entire memo, it sounds that Right control is well-established, ONLY WHEN, at least one supervisor from the petitioner�s company works with the beneficiary at the end-client site, and supervises beneficiary�s day-to-day work. So, big Consulting companies such as Wipro, Infosys, Accenture, Deloitte etc. will be good, as they would meet �Right to Control� and that way, they will satisfy H1B requirement by law, and their petitions for similar 3rd party consulting work, will be APPROVED, but not in case of, small consulting companies!! This is because, big consulting companies such as Accenture � have their entire or partial team � along with managers etc. � working at the same client site, where the beneficiary would be working, so they could supervise their work and so exercise control over their work etc., but that cannot be the case with the small consulting � because, their actual business has been, so far, to place employees and run pay-roll � not to get the client projects!
Why one could think that there are slim chances for this memorandum to get reversed in favor of small consulting companies?
This memorandum took care of big consulting companies such as Wipro, Infosys, Cognizant, Accenture etc. � meaning, these companies and their employees are NOT impacted. They can travel freely to-and-fro their home country etc. Since, big companies are not impacted, there will not be any big lobbying or oppositions to this memorandum, per say!! There don�t seem to be a platform for small consulting companies to gather and lobby, plus most the small consulting may not get involved, with fear of exposing themselves more to other issues!! So, it might be east to assume that this memorandum is permanent and not temporary. The recent deportation also indicates that the changes like this memorandum is for serious, not just the warning!
How this memorandum relates to the recent deportation events from NY and NJ airports?
There seems to be an anticipated link between these 2 events � Memorandum and recent Deportations � kind of an indication about the current level of government scrutiny and seriousness of the H1B program. Hence, there have been advices by others that � each employer and employee should operate by strictly following the H1B program requirements.
Link to Murthy.com front page posting about this � MurthyDotCom : NewsFlash! Note to H1Bs Traveling to U.S., Working for Consulting Companies (http://www.murthy.com/nflash/nf_h1conc.html)
What one could predict as happening sooner (trend)?
� Since, it seems big consulting companies (having their own consulting projects)/full-time end-clients and their beneficiaries are not impacted with these changes � there could be trend � employee moving from small companies to big companies for a better shelter for full-time positions � especially, when small consulting company�s immediate preventions / actions to this memo cannot ensure safety.
� Big consulting companies could buy small consulting companies or small consulting companies could sell their companies to big consulting companies (having their own consulting projects), to save their employee�s future/transition etc.
Good Luck my Friends....!!
Everyone knows what the impact would be...no one coming up with the solutions or ready to fight.
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However, this is how many could read RECENT (Jan 8, 2010) actions / announcement by USCIS towards Consulting companies, which engages or merely places their employees at the client sites for various projects.
� No new H1B application will be approved, as per the new guidelines provided USCIS on Jan 08, 2010 memorandum � for 3rd Party Consulting company.
� No new H1B extension/stamping will be approved, as per the new guidelines provided USCIS on Jan 08, 2010 memorandum � for 3rd Party Consulting company.
� If an employee has H1B approved or extension approved, and if he/she comes back to US from a vacation or from an emergency, he/she would be deported back to his/her home country from the Port of Entry (PoE) � for 3rd Party Consulting company.
Why?
Because of 2 recent events:
1) USCIS gave new memorandum (which is now guidelines for USCIS professionals working on the H1B petitions/extensions) on Jan 08th, 2010. (Attached the PDF file for the memorandum).
2) Recently (Jan 2010) several H1B Employees were sent back (in some forum, its mentioned � all of them) to their home country from Newark, NJ and JFK, NY Port of Entry � these were the H1B employees, who went to spend Christmas/New Year vacation to their home countries.
What does the memorandum mention, specifically, about 3rd Party Consulting companies?
Link to the memorandum (PDF attached) � http://www.uscis.gov/USCIS/Laws/Memoranda/2010/H1B%20Employer-Employee%20Memo010810.pdf
Employer-Employee Relationship:
As per the memorandum, some previous H1B Law defines, the definition of an �US Employer�. Somewhere in that definition (Page 2 of memo), it mentions the word �Employer-Employee relationship�. Till now, it seems that there was no clear guidance on what kind of relationship was considered having Employer-Employee relationship. So, it was being, probably, interpreted independently or ambiguously. Now, on Jan 8th, 2010, USCIS has published this memorandum for TRAINING USCIS OFFICIALS about understanding, Employer-Employee relationship. The memorandum seems to have been prepared with a clear understanding about it, along with the specific EXAMPLES.
Memorandum has given few specific examples, which would QUALIFY for having Employer-Employee relationship, on Page 4-5 of the Memo � including the nature of the job/business. On Page 5-6, memorandum gives few specific examples, which would NOT QUALIFY for having Employer-Employee relationship. Third Party Placement / �Job-Shop� (better version of �Body-shop�, probably) is NOT QUALIFIED for meeting Employer-Employee Relationships � meaning, 3rd Party placement (which most of the small consulting companies do) doesn�t meet H1B requirement, as defined by the law � meaning for this job, the new H1B or Extension or Stamping petitions CANNOT be approved!! Period !!
This is how memorandum has identified 3rd Party Placements and in Bold letters, why it disqualifies for the H1B petitions (comments are in Red):
�The petitioner is a computer consulting company (which is what all small consulting do). The petitioner has contract with numerous outside companies in which it supplies these companies with employee to fulfill specific staffing needs. The specific positions are not outlined in the contract between the petitioner and the third-party company but are staffed on an as-needed basis (this is nothing but, Service Agreement between the petitioner and the mid-vendor!). The beneficiary is a computer analyst (which is what many small consulting company�s employee are). The beneficiary has been assigned to work for the third-party company to fill a core position to maintain the third-party company�s payroll (this nothing but, Mid-Vendor�s or so-called Prime-Vendor�s or Consulting Partner�s Revenue). Once placed at the client company, the beneficiary reports to a manager who works for the third-party company (as it happens, when Consulting partner hires employee as a contractor). The beneficiary does not report to the petitioner for work assignments, and all work assignments are determined by the third-party company (petitioner just runs pay-rolls!). The petitioner does not control how the beneficiary will complete daily tasks, and no propriety information of the petitioner is used by the beneficiary to complete any work assignments (petitioner just runs pay-rolls!). The beneficiary�s end-product, the payroll (payroll of mid-vendor/prime vendor/consulting partner), is not in any way related to the petitioner�s line of business, which is computer consulting. The beneficiary�s progress reviews are completed by the client company, not the petitioner (petitioner just runs pay-rolls!). [Petitioner Has No Right to Control; No Exercise of Control].�
Right to Control:
Supreme Court has stated the definition of Employer-Employee Relationship (Page 3 of Memo), and there it was mentioned to have �Right to Control� over the work of the employee by the employer. From the entire memo, it sounds that Right control is well-established, ONLY WHEN, at least one supervisor from the petitioner�s company works with the beneficiary at the end-client site, and supervises beneficiary�s day-to-day work. So, big Consulting companies such as Wipro, Infosys, Accenture, Deloitte etc. will be good, as they would meet �Right to Control� and that way, they will satisfy H1B requirement by law, and their petitions for similar 3rd party consulting work, will be APPROVED, but not in case of, small consulting companies!! This is because, big consulting companies such as Accenture � have their entire or partial team � along with managers etc. � working at the same client site, where the beneficiary would be working, so they could supervise their work and so exercise control over their work etc., but that cannot be the case with the small consulting � because, their actual business has been, so far, to place employees and run pay-roll � not to get the client projects!
Why one could think that there are slim chances for this memorandum to get reversed in favor of small consulting companies?
This memorandum took care of big consulting companies such as Wipro, Infosys, Cognizant, Accenture etc. � meaning, these companies and their employees are NOT impacted. They can travel freely to-and-fro their home country etc. Since, big companies are not impacted, there will not be any big lobbying or oppositions to this memorandum, per say!! There don�t seem to be a platform for small consulting companies to gather and lobby, plus most the small consulting may not get involved, with fear of exposing themselves more to other issues!! So, it might be east to assume that this memorandum is permanent and not temporary. The recent deportation also indicates that the changes like this memorandum is for serious, not just the warning!
How this memorandum relates to the recent deportation events from NY and NJ airports?
There seems to be an anticipated link between these 2 events � Memorandum and recent Deportations � kind of an indication about the current level of government scrutiny and seriousness of the H1B program. Hence, there have been advices by others that � each employer and employee should operate by strictly following the H1B program requirements.
Link to Murthy.com front page posting about this � MurthyDotCom : NewsFlash! Note to H1Bs Traveling to U.S., Working for Consulting Companies (http://www.murthy.com/nflash/nf_h1conc.html)
What one could predict as happening sooner (trend)?
� Since, it seems big consulting companies (having their own consulting projects)/full-time end-clients and their beneficiaries are not impacted with these changes � there could be trend � employee moving from small companies to big companies for a better shelter for full-time positions � especially, when small consulting company�s immediate preventions / actions to this memo cannot ensure safety.
� Big consulting companies could buy small consulting companies or small consulting companies could sell their companies to big consulting companies (having their own consulting projects), to save their employee�s future/transition etc.
Good Luck my Friends....!!
Everyone knows what the impact would be...no one coming up with the solutions or ready to fight.
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